diesel injector seal/fail?

rusk003 MOT tester Posts: 11 Last Online: Sept 26, 2017 17:00:12 GMT 1 Likes: 3	diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 11, 2016 12:52:43 GMT 1 via mobile Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by rusk003 on Sept 11, 2016 12:52:43 GMT 1 Hi all, a bit of confusion on injector seals leaking from combustion chamber past copper seals. Leaks are obvious. Is this reason for rejection. "Section 7. 2 #3" a leak in any part of the fuel system.

Gaz VTS Council member Posts: 2,157 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Sept 7, 2019 10:16:48 GMT 1 Likes: 738	diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 11, 2016 13:44:46 GMT 1 via mobile ht likes this Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Gaz on Sept 11, 2016 13:44:46 GMT 1 If you can see it leaking then it's a fail. Otherwise pass and advise
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rusk003 MOT tester Posts: 11 Last Online: Sept 26, 2017 17:00:12 GMT 1 Likes: 3	diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 11, 2016 14:04:56 GMT 1 via mobile Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by rusk003 on Sept 11, 2016 14:04:56 GMT 1 Well i can see its wet, i can definitely hear them chuffing... it's on a Vito van.. slightly restricted view.. 99% sure.. and fumes... but fumes don't matter on class 4 from what I understand..

Gaz VTS Council member Posts: 2,157 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Sept 7, 2019 10:16:48 GMT 1 Likes: 738	diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 11, 2016 15:56:39 GMT 1 via mobile Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Gaz on Sept 11, 2016 15:56:39 GMT 1 99% sure = pass & advise
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diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 11, 2016 16:49:07 GMT 1 ht likes this

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Post by baz657 on Sept 11, 2016 16:49:07 GMT 1

Sept 11, 2016 14:04:56 GMT 1 rusk003 said:

Well i can see its wet, i can definitely hear them chuffing... it's on a Vito van.. slightly restricted view.. 99% sure.. and fumes... but fumes don't matter on class 4 from what I understand..

My view would be if it's wet with fuel it's leaking so it's a fail. Diesel fuel that's leaked onto the road surface is a death trap to anyone on two wheels.

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diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 11, 2016 17:17:18 GMT 1 via mobile

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Post by Gaz on Sept 11, 2016 17:17:18 GMT 1

Sept 11, 2016 16:49:07 GMT 1 baz657 said:

My view would be if it's wet with fuel it's leaking so it's a fail

I would agree but not from an MOT standpoint baz657. How do you know it's leaking at time of test if you don't see it leaking. Same idea as wet filler pipes

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Post by stealth on Sept 11, 2016 22:27:08 GMT 1

Sept 11, 2016 17:17:18 GMT 1 Gaz said:

Sept 11, 2016 16:49:07 GMT 1 baz657 said:

My view would be if it's wet with fuel it's leaking so it's a fail

I would agree but not from an MOT standpoint baz657. How do you know it's leaking at time of test if you don't see it leaking. Same idea as wet filler pipes

Agreed. If it's not dripping on the tester it's not leaking.

If I was to agree with you, that would make us both wrong !

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diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 11, 2016 23:55:05 GMT 1

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Post by baz657 on Sept 11, 2016 23:55:05 GMT 1

I'd agree with P & A if there was evidence of a leak which might or might not be leaking now but not if it's chuffing out and still wet. I certainly wouldn't want to carry out an emission test with an injector leaking that bad.

I can see another manual clarification request going off tomorrow...

. It wouldn't be the first time I'd got hold of the wrong end of the stick but it's better to know one way or another.

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diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 7:27:14 GMT 1

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Post by peter on Sept 12, 2016 7:27:14 GMT 1

Without seeing it I'm inclined to say P&A. Generally a leaking injector seal is more a leak of compression than fuel and I've always regarded a leak from the fuel system as being more aimed at a dripping pipe or tank etc.
But, with a large diesel injector seal leak I would refuse to do an emissions test just in case it causes more damage so the test would get aborted anyway.

karlbenz1 MOT tester Posts: 269 Last Online: Nov 19, 2020 21:51:01 GMT 1 Likes: 129	diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 13:53:50 GMT 1 via Tapatalk Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by karlbenz1 on Sept 12, 2016 13:53:50 GMT 1 Agreed pass and advise in my opinion. Abort test if necessary would generally have to be really bad for me

castrolrob MOT tester Posts: 4,380 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Apr 24, 2024 14:00:26 GMT 1 Likes: 2,766	diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 18:01:39 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by castrolrob on Sept 12, 2016 18:01:39 GMT 1 aint exactly rare is it?fiesta/focus,pick and mix pug/citroen etc.whats the drama,p+a

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diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 21:29:13 GMT 1 via mobile stealth and ht like this

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Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 21:29:13 GMT 1

Well it is compression leaking past, a bit of raw fuel perhaps, and is common on some makes. Reading deeper into the manual it clearly states component wear and deterioration needs to be assessed using experience and judgement.
criteria a) roadworthiness
b) clearly knackered..
they are clearly knackered..
I'm thinking now they should fail..
this isn't the first and won't be the last
I have failed them previously and also paa.. think I'd have to stand behind a fail when I make that decision again.. this one got a paa...

Thanks everyone...

Tony

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diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 21:55:14 GMT 1

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Post by Dynamo on Sept 12, 2016 21:55:14 GMT 1

Compression leaks have always been a pass and advise from me, yes they sound bad sometimes, and yes there are times when plenty of carbon is around, but I can't say I remember seeing one leaking and having the presence of diesel fuel there.

You can't "unbreak" the broken,you can only break the unbroken to break the break of the unbroken, for me, you cannot unbreak me, for I am already broken,so you have no need to break the break because I am not unbroken.

rusk003 MOT tester Posts: 11 Last Online: Sept 26, 2017 17:00:12 GMT 1 Likes: 3	diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 22:05:49 GMT 1 via mobile Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 22:05:49 GMT 1 But it is obviously defective, worn, in need of repair or replacement and part of the fuel "system".. Testable Item?? Does it meet criteria for deteriorated or worn part.. How to use this manual paragraph 4..??

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diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 22:18:01 GMT 1 via mobile flapperjack7 and karlbenz1 like this

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Post by stealth on Sept 12, 2016 22:18:01 GMT 1

Sept 12, 2016 22:05:49 GMT 1 rusk003 said:

But it is obviously defective, worn, in need of repair or replacement and part of the fuel "system".. Testable Item??
Does it meet criteria for deteriorated or worn part.. How to use this manual paragraph 4..??

Dont over complicate it by trying to make a failure "fit" because you think it is defective. Go by the book, nothing more or less. Remember that the MOT test is the LOWEST acceptable standard.

If I was to agree with you, that would make us both wrong !

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Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 22:56:31 GMT 1

I appreciate and accept that.. but it's frustrating sometimes.. if the top of the injector or leakoffs were leaking onbvious fail.. i know there knackered
And of course will have to advise the customer and put my service cap on and explain yes it passed but... that doesn't mean a whole lot....don't worry bout the fumes... no black smoke...

rusk003 MOT tester Posts: 11 Last Online: Sept 26, 2017 17:00:12 GMT 1 Likes: 3	diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 23:12:07 GMT 1 via mobile Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 23:12:07 GMT 1 So in the mot manual... Section... How to Use this Manual... paragraph 4... is that just for steering, suspension, brakes...for example..

rusk003 MOT tester Posts: 11 Last Online: Sept 26, 2017 17:00:12 GMT 1 Likes: 3	diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 23:20:52 GMT 1 via mobile Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 23:20:52 GMT 1 Im just after clarity.. guy up the road fails em.... guy down the road passes em.... what's that all about... never changes.. never just black and white

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diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 12, 2016 23:32:47 GMT 1

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Post by baz657 on Sept 12, 2016 23:32:47 GMT 1

Just wait until they bring in oil leaks - on the list of additional items from the EU so maybe we're safe after the Brexit vote. A certain diameter puddle in a certain time (5 minutes). Will that be with undertrays in place or not?

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diesel injector seal/fail? Sept 13, 2016 8:18:50 GMT 1

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Post by castrolrob on Sept 13, 2016 8:18:50 GMT 1

had one with an undertray filled with sand to soak it up,last week had a hunter with a can and pipe arrangement so he could collect his severe oil leak and pour it back in the engine at the end of the journey.aint no hope....

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Post by rusk003 on Sept 11, 2016 12:52:43 GMT 1

Post by Gaz on Sept 11, 2016 13:44:46 GMT 1

Post by rusk003 on Sept 11, 2016 14:04:56 GMT 1

Post by Gaz on Sept 11, 2016 15:56:39 GMT 1

Post by baz657 on Sept 11, 2016 16:49:07 GMT 1

Post by Gaz on Sept 11, 2016 17:17:18 GMT 1

Post by stealth on Sept 11, 2016 22:27:08 GMT 1

Post by baz657 on Sept 11, 2016 23:55:05 GMT 1

Post by peter on Sept 12, 2016 7:27:14 GMT 1

Post by karlbenz1 on Sept 12, 2016 13:53:50 GMT 1

Post by castrolrob on Sept 12, 2016 18:01:39 GMT 1

Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 21:29:13 GMT 1

Post by Dynamo on Sept 12, 2016 21:55:14 GMT 1

Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 22:05:49 GMT 1

Post by stealth on Sept 12, 2016 22:18:01 GMT 1

Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 22:56:31 GMT 1

Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 23:12:07 GMT 1

Post by rusk003 on Sept 12, 2016 23:20:52 GMT 1

Post by baz657 on Sept 12, 2016 23:32:47 GMT 1

Post by castrolrob on Sept 13, 2016 8:18:50 GMT 1