Lack of official VSI

baz657
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Lack of official VSI Sept 16, 2015 22:25:23 GMT 1 nitros44, pete, and 5 more like this

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Post by baz657 on Sept 16, 2015 22:25:23 GMT 1

We know from our past experiences that there are certain testable items which are different to the norm - but unless it's specifically mentioned in the manual and/or amended anywhere official (special notice) we have been told to ignore our experience and use the fail criteria laid out in front of us.

By now every test station should be on Comp 2 they are testing without any Vehicle Specific Information (VSI) provided by DVSA. Bearing in mind we are always told to test to the manual, should we now be failing most Vauxhall Corsa font top strut mountings for excessive play? How about Ford Ka front and rear top strut mountings? Certain Fiat side lights? I'm sure every experienced tester has got a few of their own they could add.

Let's not even start on the possibility of electronic parking brakes (including certain luxury 4x4's, as mentioned elsewhere) passing on parking brake performance when in fact the service brake has been doing all the work and the parking brake is actually doing sweet FA because the tester didn't set the electronics up in test mode.

It's a can of worms and they've just given us all a tin opener. Don't cut yourself on the lid!

The all new Hillside Garage website now open

Paul
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Lack of official VSI Sept 16, 2015 22:55:37 GMT 1

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Post by Paul on Sept 16, 2015 22:55:37 GMT 1

Sept 16, 2015 22:25:23 GMT 1 baz657 said:

We know from our past experiences that there are certain testable items which are different to the norm - but unless it's specifically mentioned in the manual and/or amended anywhere official (special notice) we have been told to ignore our experience and use the fail criteria laid out in front of us.

By now every test station should be on Comp 2 they are testing without any Vehicle Specific Information (VSI) provided by DVSA. Bearing in mind we are always told to test to the manual, should we now be failing most Vauxhall Corsa font top strut mountings for excessive play? How about Ford Ka front and rear top strut mountings? Certain Fiat side lights? I'm sure every experienced tester has got a few of their own they could add.

Let's not even start on the possibility of electronic parking brakes (including certain luxury 4x4's, as mentioned elsewhere) passing on parking brake performance when in fact the service brake has been doing all the work and the parking brake is actually doing sweet FA because the tester didn't set the electronics up in test mode.

It's a can of worms and they've just given us all a tin opener. Don't cut yourself on the lid!

AGREED! Don't cut yourself on the lid!

?? What does this mean?

Paul AE/Manager/Owner MOT Tester Posts: 1,362 Class tested: 4 Last Online: Apr 24, 2024 20:27:18 GMT 1 Likes: 339	Lack of official VSI Sept 16, 2015 22:59:32 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Paul on Sept 16, 2015 22:59:32 GMT 1 Got it:)

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Lack of official VSI Sept 17, 2015 11:24:26 GMT 1

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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 11:24:26 GMT 1

According to dvsa the feedback from the trade was;

Other VSI won’t be presented as a result of feedback DVSA received from the MOT trade which told us:

they didn’t use it
it wasn’t reliable
they preferred to use other data services

Instead, NTs should refer to manufacturer or other reliable data if information is required on things like:

anti-lock braking systems
electronic parking brake systems

We asked for it to be removed...Well I didn't, but I must have been in the minority

Last Edit: Sept 17, 2015 11:26:33 GMT 1 by Deleted -

David Administrator Owner\Director, AE\NT\SM, DVSA VTS Council Member, Registered Member & Administrator of The MOT Testers & AE's Forum If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein Posts: 6,723 Class tested: 4 Last Online: May 3, 2024 17:32:27 GMT 1 Likes: 965	Lack of official VSI Sept 17, 2015 12:10:38 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by David on Sept 17, 2015 12:10:38 GMT 1 They wanted to use a 3rd party supplier and it would've cost us a typically over inflated fee as it would be Approved...
	It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer. —Albert Einstein

mercedes VTS Council member Posts: 1,200 Class tested: 4 Last Online: May 4, 2024 11:30:47 GMT 1 Likes: 464	Lack of official VSI Sept 17, 2015 13:20:41 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by mercedes on Sept 17, 2015 13:20:41 GMT 1 i use my suppliers system they tell me it costs them 0.001 every time they look it up so if they can get it at this price vosa should be able to get it cheaper

wally
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Lack of official VSI Sept 17, 2015 15:47:44 GMT 1

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Post by wally on Sept 17, 2015 15:47:44 GMT 1

Sept 17, 2015 13:20:41 GMT 1 mercedes said:

i use my suppliers system they tell me it costs them 0.001 every time they look it up so if they can get it at this price vosa should be able to get it cheaper

What exactly does your supplier look up for you ?

Wally

mercedes VTS Council member Posts: 1,200 Class tested: 4 Last Online: May 4, 2024 11:30:47 GMT 1 Likes: 464	Lack of official VSI Sept 17, 2015 16:10:24 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by mercedes on Sept 17, 2015 16:10:24 GMT 1 date off first reg and the wieght , engine size .

wally AE/Manager/Owner Posts: 868 Last Online: May 3, 2024 23:19:52 GMT 1 Likes: 711	Lack of official VSI Sept 17, 2015 21:37:30 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by wally on Sept 17, 2015 21:37:30 GMT 1 But where do you get the other VSI from? Wally

David Administrator Owner\Director, AE\NT\SM, DVSA VTS Council Member, Registered Member & Administrator of The MOT Testers & AE's Forum If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein Posts: 6,723 Class tested: 4 Last Online: May 3, 2024 17:32:27 GMT 1 Likes: 965	Lack of official VSI Sept 18, 2015 13:16:51 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by David on Sept 18, 2015 13:16:51 GMT 1 Sept 17, 2015 16:10:24 GMT 1 mercedes said: date off first reg and the wieght , engine size . You get those details on the "Confirm vehicle details page" mercedes...I just note them on the VT29 if need be
	It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer. —Albert Einstein

Gaz VTS Council member Posts: 2,157 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Sept 7, 2019 10:16:48 GMT 1 Likes: 738	Lack of official VSI Sept 18, 2015 20:09:15 GMT 1 via mobile phaetonott likes this Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Gaz on Sept 18, 2015 20:09:15 GMT 1 I've never seen the weight on the confirm page David. It would be handy if it was.
	Specialising in repairing & rebuilding Vauxhall 6 speed gearboxes www.m32guy.co.uk - info@m32guy.co.uk

nitros44 MOT tester Posts: 3,808 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Mar 6, 2013 1:09:15 GMT 1 Likes: 1,971	Lack of official VSI Sept 18, 2015 20:32:15 GMT 1 via mobile peter likes this Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by nitros44 on Sept 18, 2015 20:32:15 GMT 1 Should be given the weight at test start If its wrong or not there then there's time available to sought it,rather then at enter test results
	I might not be the best,but i was always in the top one

peter
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Lack of official VSI Sept 25, 2015 7:33:21 GMT 1 phaetonott likes this

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Post by peter on Sept 25, 2015 7:33:21 GMT 1

Sept 17, 2015 11:24:26 GMT 1 @excessive said:

According to dvsa the feedback from the trade was;

Other VSI won’t be presented as a result of feedback DVSA received from the MOT trade which told us:

they didn’t use it
it wasn’t reliable
they preferred to use other data services

Instead, NTs should refer to manufacturer or other reliable data if information is required on things like:

anti-lock braking systems
electronic parking brake systems

We asked for it to be removed...Well I didn't, but I must have been in the minority

I don't know who asked for it to be removed either! To answer their points in order:
I did use it!
As far as I know it was perfectly reliable!
What other data services give the same sort of information?

Manufacturer data is not free, far from it, and I think we've just been hung out to dry on this one. Some Volvo's with certain sized wheels are permitted to have the front tyres fouling the wheelarch on full lock. I remember that but the trouble is I can't remember which models and which sized wheels! I never had to learn it because it came up in VSI every time.

Deleted Posts: 0 Last Online: May 4, 2024 12:26:43 GMT 1	Lack of official VSI Sept 25, 2015 8:13:12 GMT 1 peter likes this Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 8:13:12 GMT 1 We need better representation peter - vsi should never have been removed.

wolfie1 AE/Manager/Owner Posts: 113 Class tested: 4 Last Online: Mar 21, 2022 9:51:01 GMT 1 Likes: 28	Lack of official VSI Sept 25, 2015 10:45:39 GMT 1 peter likes this Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by wolfie1 on Sept 25, 2015 10:45:39 GMT 1 i thought it was a terrible idea to not include it on comp 2! dvsa must have thought "we can blag not putting that on by saying folk use other sources for info"

David
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Lack of official VSI Sept 25, 2015 10:47:42 GMT 1

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Post by David on Sept 25, 2015 10:47:42 GMT 1

Sept 25, 2015 8:13:12 GMT 1 @excessive said:

We need better representation peter - vsi should never have been removed.

Discussed this yesterday with DVSA, what they said made sense.

1. If it comes back it won't be free or cheap
2. Only Approved 3rd party content allowed on any .Gov site
3. Can take upto 2 years to gain approval
4. With a modern paperless MOT System where would the VSI Data go?
5. Only 6 people in the Country replied to questions sent on MOT Comp about keeping VSI before we went Live.

It wasn't our representation that let us down it was the trade again. Representation were last to be asked to confirm what no replies was interpreted to signify...

If and when it does come back it won't be cheap so if you want it we'll pay through the nose for it and that means we all have to pay

Last Edit: Sept 25, 2015 10:51:11 GMT 1 by David -

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Lack of official VSI Sept 25, 2015 11:31:23 GMT 1 peter likes this

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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 11:31:23 GMT 1

I am hearing excuses David - Cost concerns over safety/testing concerns is dangerous. You must recognise this?

I'm not having a go at you personally, at least you come and stand your corner - However, you only have to read the feedback in your own forum to realise that vsi removal was a huge error. I can tell you that the feedback I have heard out here on the ground floor is the same.

As for only receiving six repies, then clearly they didn't do a good enough job of getting the relevant questions out there - Lunacy to base any decisions on that feedback.

Last Edit: Sept 25, 2015 11:34:40 GMT 1 by Deleted -

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Lack of official VSI Sept 25, 2015 12:00:06 GMT 1

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Post by David on Sept 25, 2015 12:00:06 GMT 1

Sept 25, 2015 11:31:23 GMT 1 @excessive said:

I am hearing excuses David - Cost concerns over safety/testing concerns is dangerous. You must recognise this?

I'm not having a go at you personally, at least you come and stand your corner - However, you only have to read the feedback in your own forum to realise that vsi removal was a huge error. I can tell you that the feedback I have heard out here on the ground floor is the same.

As for only receiving six repies, then clearly they didn't do a good enough job of getting the relevant questions out there - Lunacy to base any decisions on that feedback.

I haven't expressed my own opinion as yet @excessive I'm just relaying info.

Our cost over safety that should say too. We would have to foot the bill. No chance of this Government paying it for us in reality and not caused by DVSA.

If you can show me a .Gov.uk Government site containing third party data I'll relay that back for you with a complaint.

Messages re VSI sent via MOT Comp, if not seen and responded to who's to blame? The message wasn't hidden it was simply overlooked and no tick in the keep message box. If as you say our representation isn't up to scratch and as you also say, asking ground level testers for opinions is lunacy - Who exactly should've been asked?

Last Edit: Sept 25, 2015 12:04:34 GMT 1 by David -

It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer.
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David
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Lack of official VSI Sept 25, 2015 12:21:26 GMT 1

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Post by David on Sept 25, 2015 12:21:26 GMT 1

Here a perfect example of the attitudes towards important information requests from DVSA.

I posted this:

Reply No.54 posted Sep 8, 2015 at 12:16pm Back to TopQuoteEditlikePost Options ModerateReport PostPost by David on Sep 8, 2015 at 12:16pm

Slightly off topic but, I think this post may have been overlooked: mtaeta.info/thread/2394/comments-needed-national-occupational-standards?page=1&scrollTo=22298

We need to make our thoughts known with regards the future of MOT Training please everyone.

Original post:

Important feedback needed from the trade.

This another chance for us to provide our thoughts and concerns regarding the future of MOT Tester & Manager training.
Ensure you send any comments before September 16th 2015

We have a voice ladies & gents, make it heard for the good of our trade!

The Sector Skills Council for the automotive retail industry and DVSAs MOT Training Education and Skills Support team have been developing National Occupational Standards.

You can now read and comment on the suggested Standards for the roles of MOT testers and authorised examiners (AEs) on the Sector Skills website.

These standards state the knowledge and understanding you require as well as the performance levels you must achieve when managing a Vehicle Testing Station or carrying out an MOT test.

Once your comments have been included, the UK Commission for Employment and Skills will approve the final standards. Training providers will then use these to develop modern MOT tester and AE qualifications.

Read and comment on the suggested National Occupational Standards for MOT testers and AEs.

Contact MTESS@vosa.gov.uk if you have any questions or comments about professionalising the roles of MOT testers and AEs.

Source: Matters of Testing

We need a good healthy response to this ASAP ladies & gents

, nearly three weeks ago in the largest thread in the history of this Forum.

Not one single person has bothered to respond and have their say as to how MOT Training will be carried out in future, not a single reply. Overlooked, ignored or whatever. No response is no response so we can't complain when we don't like what's been done for us can we?

Last Edit: Sept 25, 2015 12:22:52 GMT 1 by David -

It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer.
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Lack of official VSI Sept 25, 2015 13:53:39 GMT 1

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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 13:53:39 GMT 1

Sept 25, 2015 12:00:06 GMT 1 David said:

I haven't expressed my own opinion as yet @excessive I'm just relaying info.

But you have; mtaeta.info/thread/2244/mot-trade-representatives

You called the vsi a load of bollocks, and got called up on it from numerous members, not one supported your view. A view which you took to dvsa.

Our cost over safety that should say too. We would have to foot the bill. No chance of this Government paying it for us in reality and not caused by DVSA.

Argument still stands, you're putting price concerns over safety concerns - Ask yourself why we are testing vehicles before you answer this with more talk of costs.

If you can show me a .Gov.uk Government site containing third party data I'll relay that back for you with a complaint.

I can make a complaint myself thanks.

Messages re VSI sent via MOT Comp, if not seen and responded to who's to blame? The message wasn't hidden it was simply overlooked and no tick in the keep message box. If as you say our representation isn't up to scratch and as you also say, asking ground level testers for opinions is lunacy - Who exactly should've been asked?

They could do what they did with special notices in having testers acknowledge the email - I'm sure they would have received much much more feedback with a bit more thought from their end. Maybe they didn't want the feedback though, which no doubt would have been in favour of keeping the vsi.

It's also worth you noting that a big chunk of your fellow reps don't share your view, again read your own forum.

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Post by baz657 on Sept 16, 2015 22:25:23 GMT 1

Post by Paul on Sept 16, 2015 22:55:37 GMT 1

Post by Paul on Sept 16, 2015 22:59:32 GMT 1

Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 11:24:26 GMT 1

Post by David on Sept 17, 2015 12:10:38 GMT 1

Post by mercedes on Sept 17, 2015 13:20:41 GMT 1

Post by wally on Sept 17, 2015 15:47:44 GMT 1

Post by mercedes on Sept 17, 2015 16:10:24 GMT 1

Post by wally on Sept 17, 2015 21:37:30 GMT 1

Post by David on Sept 18, 2015 13:16:51 GMT 1

Post by Gaz on Sept 18, 2015 20:09:15 GMT 1

Post by nitros44 on Sept 18, 2015 20:32:15 GMT 1

Post by peter on Sept 25, 2015 7:33:21 GMT 1

Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 8:13:12 GMT 1

Post by wolfie1 on Sept 25, 2015 10:45:39 GMT 1

Post by David on Sept 25, 2015 10:47:42 GMT 1

Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 11:31:23 GMT 1

Post by David on Sept 25, 2015 12:00:06 GMT 1

Post by David on Sept 25, 2015 12:21:26 GMT 1

Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 13:53:39 GMT 1