MOT failure on rear brake discs

macphee70
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 14:26:55 GMT 1

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Post by macphee70 on Mar 25, 2015 14:26:55 GMT 1

Hello,

I'm looking for some advice her and sorry im new but i thought this was somewhere good to turn to.

My S40 has just failed an MOT on the grounds that both of the rear discs are in a conditions that is seriously weakened [ 3.5.1i] I've looked at them and I don't believe that this is the case. I do admit that they are not in a good condition but do they really warrant a fail based on the guidlines set by VOSA.

So I've taken some photos as best I can and I'm taking the car to a different garage to be assessed but I just wanted other people opinion on them first.

I've put them on a google drive and apologies for the poor photos
Volvo s40 rear brake disc photos

The test results were 159Kgf and 205kgf, imb 13% for the test and they passed the Bind, Judder and Grab, the overall test for both front and back was a pass with an overall efficiency of 69%. Last year the results were 180kgf and 223kgf Imb 17% with an overall efficiency of 68%.

Thank you for your views

nitros44
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 14:54:11 GMT 1 via mobile

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Post by nitros44 on Mar 25, 2015 14:54:11 GMT 1

Thanks for loading the photos and welcome to the forum,
It may be a bit differ cult to advise as the photos are just a snapshot of the outer parts of the brake discs, your tester may of seen something more serious on the inner side of the brake disc,
From what I can see in the photos would certainly be advisory.
If your not happy with the outcome of your test it may be a good idea to ask the test station for an appeal form, and maybe ask the test station tester what part of the disc(s) are
Seriously weakend .

I might not be the best,but i was always in the top one

stealth
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 18:18:14 GMT 1 via mobile

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Post by stealth on Mar 25, 2015 18:18:14 GMT 1

Unless the inner faces are "significantly" worn (there would need to be a "lip" on the outer edge of the disc) then I think the fail was unjustified. You should definitely consider an appeal. Fail for profit imo.

Last Edit: Mar 25, 2015 18:21:48 GMT 1 by stealth -

If I was to agree with you, that would make us both wrong !

Gaz VTS Council member Posts: 2,157 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Sept 7, 2019 10:16:48 GMT 1 Likes: 738	MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 19:36:11 GMT 1 via mobile Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Gaz on Mar 25, 2015 19:36:11 GMT 1 In my experience disks that look look like that on the outside are often much much worse on the inside. That being said they need to be quite thin to be a fail based on a visual inspection.
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baz657
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 19:45:06 GMT 1

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Post by baz657 on Mar 25, 2015 19:45:06 GMT 1

They look awful and probably are slightly juddery. If they were on my car I'd change them.

But...

As the MOT is only a test to absolute bare minimum standards they appear from the photos to look like a pass with a strong, and possibly dangerous in the opinion of the tester, advisory.

Like I said, if they were mine, if only for my safety and peace of mind, I'd change them (and the pads too).

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pete Administrator VTS Council member Freelance Tester Business owner Posts: 2,235 Class tested: 3, 4, 5L, 7 Last Online: May 2, 2024 22:05:37 GMT 1 Likes: 668	MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 20:35:05 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by pete on Mar 25, 2015 20:35:05 GMT 1 Knowing all to well the standards we have to test to and not seeing the inside of the disc reluctantly i would pass with a strong advise.
	Last Edit: Mar 25, 2015 20:36:30 GMT 1 by pete -

stealth
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 20:39:04 GMT 1 via mobile

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Post by stealth on Mar 25, 2015 20:39:04 GMT 1

Mar 25, 2015 19:45:06 GMT 1 baz657 said:

They look awful and probably are slightly juddery. If they were on my car I'd change them.

But...

As the MOT is only a test to absolute bare minimum standards they appear from the photos to look like a pass with a strong, and possibly dangerous in the opinion of the tester, advisory.

Like I said, if they were mine, if only for my safety and peace of mind, I'd change them (and the pads too).

Why dangerous baz657 ? The brake readings were good, and haven't varied much from last year according to the original post.

Last Edit: Mar 25, 2015 20:41:19 GMT 1 by stealth -

If I was to agree with you, that would make us both wrong !

pete Administrator VTS Council member Freelance Tester Business owner Posts: 2,235 Class tested: 3, 4, 5L, 7 Last Online: May 2, 2024 22:05:37 GMT 1 Likes: 668	MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 20:53:21 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by pete on Mar 25, 2015 20:53:21 GMT 1 Good luck with your second MOT tomorrow macphee70 and even if it passes on the discs this time i would strongly recommend changing them.

Gaz VTS Council member Posts: 2,157 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Sept 7, 2019 10:16:48 GMT 1 Likes: 738	MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 21:05:29 GMT 1 via mobile Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Gaz on Mar 25, 2015 21:05:29 GMT 1 Going by those pictures I wouldn't consider them anywhere near dangerous.
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billyloadsamud
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 21:22:47 GMT 1

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Post by billyloadsamud on Mar 25, 2015 21:22:47 GMT 1

Had similar argument with a tech last year who "lost" his MOT licence a long time ago for being a bad boy, he could not understand that discs which are really badly pitted and scored will pass an MOT if performance ok, he argued and argued (a set passed and advised by me) should fail even after explaining "seriously weakened" was the only available RFR, and P & A was in advisories for in poor condition.
"service Techs are not taught what is an MOT fail/pass criteria and see ANY poor condition disc as a should fail , SERVICE CRITERIA would give a lot of discs P&A'd by us NTs a dangerous tick on service sheets

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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 25, 2015 23:28:09 GMT 1

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Post by David on Mar 25, 2015 23:28:09 GMT 1

Mar 25, 2015 14:26:55 GMT 1 macphee70 said:

Hello,

I'm looking for some advice her and sorry im new but i thought this was somewhere good to turn to.

My S40 has just failed an MOT on the grounds that both of the rear discs are in a conditions that is seriously weakened [ 3.5.1i] I've looked at them and I don't believe that this is the case. I do admit that they are not in a good condition but do they really warrant a fail based on the guidlines set by VOSA.

So I've taken some photos as best I can and I'm taking the car to a different garage to be assessed but I just wanted other people opinion on them first.

I've put them on a google drive and apologies for the poor photos
Volvo s40 rear brake disc photos

The test results were 159Kgf and 205kgf, imb 13% for the test and they passed the Bind, Judder and Grab, the overall test for both front and back was a pass with an overall efficiency of 69%. Last year the results were 180kgf and 223kgf Imb 17% with an overall efficiency of 68%.

Thank you for your views

Hi macphee70

Am I correct in thinking your happy to drive the vehicle with brake disc's in that condition? We sometimes have to apply that logic when testing. It happens quite a lot to be honest...

Last Edit: Mar 25, 2015 23:28:37 GMT 1 by David -

It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer.
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macphee70
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 26, 2015 10:06:09 GMT 1

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Post by macphee70 on Mar 26, 2015 10:06:09 GMT 1

I agree that they need changing, I'm not disputing that. But I personally don't believe they are a fail, like the many others I've asked an advisory yes I would accept that. They drive fine and passed the brake test according to the report, in fact they were slightly better than last year.

I'll let you know what happens at the new MOT

macphee70
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 26, 2015 10:39:01 GMT 1

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Post by macphee70 on Mar 26, 2015 10:39:01 GMT 1

Mar 25, 2015 14:54:11 GMT 1 nitros44 said:

Thanks for loading the photos and welcome to the forum,
It may be a bit differ cult to advise as the photos are just a snapshot of the outer parts of the brake discs, your tester may of seen something more serious on the inner side of the brake disc,
From what I can see in the photos would certainly be advisory.
If your not happy with the outcome of your test it may be a good idea to ask the test station for an appeal form, and maybe ask the test station tester what part of the disc(s) are
Seriously weakend .

Ii wasn't there for the whole test (my mistake in hindsight), but wouldn't he have needed to take the wheels off of check the rear of the discs?

pete Administrator VTS Council member Freelance Tester Business owner Posts: 2,235 Class tested: 3, 4, 5L, 7 Last Online: May 2, 2024 22:05:37 GMT 1 Likes: 668	MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 26, 2015 11:53:25 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by pete on Mar 26, 2015 11:53:25 GMT 1 If you know the discs need changing then why not just change them and get a re-test and be done with it, or is it a principle thing.
	Last Edit: Mar 26, 2015 11:57:42 GMT 1 by pete -

sysop AE/Manager/Owner Posts: 63 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Oct 28, 2016 14:39:02 GMT 1 Likes: 18	MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 26, 2015 12:48:41 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by sysop on Mar 26, 2015 12:48:41 GMT 1 From looking at the photos the discs would appear to be an advisory item only.

macphee70
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 26, 2015 13:38:32 GMT 1

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Post by macphee70 on Mar 26, 2015 13:38:32 GMT 1

Mar 26, 2015 11:53:25 GMT 1 pete said:

If you know the discs need changing then why not just change them and get a re-test and be done with it, or is it a principle thing.

Unfortunatly its now the principle of the thing, the car went to the autocentre in Stirling for an MOT. It should have passed but they put 4 fails on it, the rear discs as discussed and both wiperblades, one of these blades is still perfectly fine and the other one was damaged by them during the test.

So Ive had to waste 2 days dealing with a failed MOT test because of some dodgy tester. To say i'm a little annoyed is an understatement. I feel theyve well and truly tried to pull the wool over my eyes and rip me off and I'm not happy about it. They had the cheek to quote £18.99 for the wiper blade they split and £178.54 for brake discs.

That's two days of my life I'll never get back not to mention I cant drive the car moan, moan, moan.

So yes unfortunately is now the principle of the matter.

Last Edit: Mar 26, 2015 20:59:36 GMT 1 by pete -

Gaz VTS Council member Posts: 2,157 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Sept 7, 2019 10:16:48 GMT 1 Likes: 738	MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 26, 2015 14:38:58 GMT 1 via mobile Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Gaz on Mar 26, 2015 14:38:58 GMT 1 I would be happy to drive the car with the disks like that but if it was my car I would be changing them.
	Specialising in repairing & rebuilding Vauxhall 6 speed gearboxes www.m32guy.co.uk - info@m32guy.co.uk

nitros44
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 26, 2015 20:09:28 GMT 1 via mobile

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Post by nitros44 on Mar 26, 2015 20:09:28 GMT 1

Mar 26, 2015 10:39:01 GMT 1 macphee70 said:

Mar 25, 2015 14:54:11 GMT 1 nitros44 said:

Thanks for loading the photos and welcome to the forum,
It may be a bit differ cult to advise as the photos are just a snapshot of the outer parts of the brake discs, your tester may of seen something more serious on the inner side of the brake disc,
From what I can see in the photos would certainly be advisory.
If your not happy with the outcome of your test it may be a good idea to ask the test station for an appeal form, and maybe ask the test station tester what part of the disc(s) are
Seriously weakend .

Ii wasn't there for the whole test (my mistake in hindsight), but wouldn't he have needed to take the wheels off of check the rear of the discs?

The mot test does not involve removing the wheels, the tester will inspect the brake discs as best possible from what is in front of him ,he has failed them on that evidence, you may like it , you may not, but because in your opinion the disc looks ok bearing in mind your opinion is based on just part of the disc, because the testers opinion doesn't agree with yours dosent make him a dodgy tester,why would a tester damage a wiper blade, for all he knows your Volvo could be a mystery shopper or the DVSA vehicle sent incognito to check the test station is testing correctly and applying the correct standards,
Like I said in a previous post if your not happy with the outcome of your test then go through the appeal process, after all its there to protect presenters, not only that let them carry out an mot test your vehicle and let them decide if the tester is dodgy, good luck with that one.

Last Edit: Mar 26, 2015 20:10:46 GMT 1 by nitros44: Spelling mistakes -

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macphee70 Owner/Driver Posts: 6 Last Online: Jan 9, 2016 13:57:53 GMT 1	MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 26, 2015 20:54:27 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by macphee70 on Mar 26, 2015 20:54:27 GMT 1 They car passed the MOT with only 3 advisory points, rear discs and pads and rear number plate. A huge reduction on what the autocentre in Stirling said needed done.I wont be going back there again.
	Last Edit: Mar 26, 2015 20:57:27 GMT 1 by pete -

David
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MOT failure on rear brake discs Mar 26, 2015 22:48:34 GMT 1

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Post by David on Mar 26, 2015 22:48:34 GMT 1

Mar 26, 2015 20:54:27 GMT 1 macphee70 said:

They car passed the MOT with only 3 advisory points, rear discs and pads and rear number plate. A huge reduction on what the autocentre in Stirling said needed done.I wont be going back there again.

Would it be possible for you to PM me the details of the MOT Station your unhappy with please @machee70?

The last thing any genuine MOT Station wants is bad publicity for the trade in general. Part of the modernisation project is improving the overall testing standards accross the Country to try to ensure everyone gets the same test quality no matter where you go for an MOT......

Customer feedback is a great way to improve overall quality in any trade.

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Post by macphee70 on Mar 25, 2015 14:26:55 GMT 1

Post by nitros44 on Mar 25, 2015 14:54:11 GMT 1

Post by stealth on Mar 25, 2015 18:18:14 GMT 1

Post by Gaz on Mar 25, 2015 19:36:11 GMT 1

Post by baz657 on Mar 25, 2015 19:45:06 GMT 1

Post by pete on Mar 25, 2015 20:35:05 GMT 1

Post by stealth on Mar 25, 2015 20:39:04 GMT 1

Post by pete on Mar 25, 2015 20:53:21 GMT 1

Post by Gaz on Mar 25, 2015 21:05:29 GMT 1

Post by billyloadsamud on Mar 25, 2015 21:22:47 GMT 1

Post by David on Mar 25, 2015 23:28:09 GMT 1

Post by macphee70 on Mar 26, 2015 10:06:09 GMT 1

Post by macphee70 on Mar 26, 2015 10:39:01 GMT 1

Post by pete on Mar 26, 2015 11:53:25 GMT 1

Post by sysop on Mar 26, 2015 12:48:41 GMT 1

Post by macphee70 on Mar 26, 2015 13:38:32 GMT 1

Post by Gaz on Mar 26, 2015 14:38:58 GMT 1

Post by nitros44 on Mar 26, 2015 20:09:28 GMT 1

Post by macphee70 on Mar 26, 2015 20:54:27 GMT 1

Post by David on Mar 26, 2015 22:48:34 GMT 1