Opinions No.2

stealth
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Opinions No.2 Oct 30, 2023 19:34:47 GMT 1 via mobile David, wally, and 4 more like this

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Post by stealth on Oct 30, 2023 19:34:47 GMT 1

Oct 28, 2023 23:18:44 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

Somebody working tomorrow could have a look but if not I'll look Monday on my return, I'm sure I've seen one.

Correct. There is a specific advisory available for "slightly damaged" in the seatbelt menu when recording defects.

Where the line is drawn between "advisory" damage and "major" damage is as clear as mud. The old days of Chadderton & lifting engines are, in my own opinion long gone.

For what it's worth, I would consider the photo example to be more than "slight" damage, but I'm just a retired old 🦖🐢

Last Edit: Oct 30, 2023 19:41:39 GMT 1 by stealth -

If I was to agree with you, that would make us both wrong !

rocket
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Opinions No.2 Oct 30, 2023 22:14:37 GMT 1 David likes this

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Post by rocket on Oct 30, 2023 22:14:37 GMT 1

Oct 30, 2023 19:34:47 GMT 1 stealth said:

Oct 28, 2023 23:18:44 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

Somebody working tomorrow could have a look but if not I'll look Monday on my return, I'm sure I've seen one.

Correct. There is a specific advisory available for "slightly damaged" in the seatbelt menu when recording defects.

Where the line is drawn between "advisory" damage and "major" damage is as clear as mud. The old days of Chadderton & lifting engines are, in my own opinion long gone.

For what it's worth, I would consider the photo example to be more than "slight" damage, but I'm just a retired old 🦖🐢

On a Appeal test ? Did you sit the same refresher courses that I did ? I 've seen worse examples than I've posted at chadderton and Peter Shortish said Everyone was a pass and advise

rocket
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Opinions No.2 Oct 30, 2023 22:28:49 GMT 1 David and mike617 like this

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Post by rocket on Oct 30, 2023 22:28:49 GMT 1

Oct 27, 2023 19:06:53 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

The decision whether to pass or fail any individual test item is exactly that, an individual item that deserves an impartial decision. If any vehicle tested has other faults in other areas that may well justify a Major defect, then those defects MUST NOT influence the tester to fail other components that don't meet the fail criteria. There is a specific advisory provided by DVSA for this seat belt condition, and it would be recommended that testers think clearly about their decison before making it as an appeal with such a defect as posted by David would more than likely end up with either a Minor or pass and advise.

That is what I was trying to convey to Ben (formerly spamgoo) just because you have advised a item it should not alter the overall TEST result

Dynamo
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He who is without oil shall throw the first Rod. See the book of Compression's 8.7.1

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Opinions No.2 Oct 30, 2023 22:45:49 GMT 1 David and rocket like this

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Post by Dynamo on Oct 30, 2023 22:45:49 GMT 1

Oct 30, 2023 19:34:47 GMT 1 stealth said:

Oct 28, 2023 23:18:44 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

Somebody working tomorrow could have a look but if not I'll look Monday on my return, I'm sure I've seen one.

Correct. There is a specific advisory available for "slightly damaged" in the seatbelt menu when recording defects.

Where the line is drawn between "advisory" damage and "major" damage is as clear as mud. The old days of Chadderton & lifting engines are, in my own opinion long gone.

For what it's worth, I would consider the photo example to be more than "slight" damage, but I'm just a retired old 🦖🐢

I suppose it could boil down to, what is the primary purpose of the MOT Test?

Are we talking about road safety!

Are we talking about the environment!

Are we talking about money for the MOT scheme!

We can all talk a glass eye to sleep with this subject, but one thing I'll guarrantee right now, and that is NOT EVEN ONE person on this thread has ever tested a seatbelts structure for its rigidity, strength and durability whether damaged or not, so not even ONE of us are experienced from research to justify saying whether the belt being damaged is safe or not. And I don't even think anyone at DVSA has that experience either, its just a case of their uniform and warrant card says they are right.

The bottom line is, the manual is poorly worded, and the people that write it are less experienced that testers who examine these defects everyday. An opinion or a viewpoint is simply that, its not conclusive evidence that the defect is unsafe or is safe. Passing and advising is like pass the parcel, I gave the presenter the responsibility to sort it, or get the owner to do so.

You can't "unbreak" the broken,you can only break the unbroken to break the break of the unbroken, for me, you cannot unbreak me, for I am already broken,so you have no need to break the break because I am not unbroken.

rocket
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Opinions No.2 Oct 30, 2023 23:41:40 GMT 1 David likes this

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Post by rocket on Oct 30, 2023 23:41:40 GMT 1

stealth the photos on the Toyota I provided her dog 🐕 were chewing on them is that a fail ?No is it weakened Yes is it significant weakened NO I passed and advised it to minimum standards That was My decision and mine alone regardless on another fault I found it passed by the way

Last Edit: Oct 30, 2023 23:53:16 GMT 1 by rocket -

dwain
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Opinions No.2 Oct 30, 2023 23:58:47 GMT 1 via mobile David, wally, and 1 more like this

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Post by dwain on Oct 30, 2023 23:58:47 GMT 1

Oct 30, 2023 22:45:49 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

Oct 30, 2023 19:34:47 GMT 1 stealth said:

Correct. There is a specific advisory available for "slightly damaged" in the seatbelt menu when recording defects.

Where the line is drawn between "advisory" damage and "major" damage is as clear as mud. The old days of Chadderton & lifting engines are, in my own opinion long gone.

For what it's worth, I would consider the photo example to be more than "slight" damage, but I'm just a retired old 🦖🐢

I suppose it could boil down to, what is the primary purpose of the MOT Test?

Are we talking about road safety!

Are we talking about the environment!

Are we talking about money for the MOT scheme!

We can all talk a glass eye to sleep with this subject, but one thing I'll guarrantee right now, and that is NOT EVEN ONE person on this thread has ever tested a seatbelts structure for its rigidity, strength and durability whether damaged or not, so not even ONE of us are experienced from research to justify saying whether the belt being damaged is safe or not. And I don't even think anyone at DVSA has that experience either, its just a case of their uniform and warrant card says they are right.

The bottom line is, the manual is poorly worded, and the people that write it are less experienced that testers who examine these defects everyday. An opinion or a viewpoint is simply that, its not conclusive evidence that the defect is unsafe or is safe. Passing and advising is like pass the parcel, I gave the presenter the responsibility to sort it, or get the owner to do so.

Or……you could forget all that and ask yourself one very simple question, with a yes or no answer……is it damaged?

Yes = fail
No = pass

All too easy? add in the one other not particularly taxing option, it is damaged, but only slight = advise.

All the rest is just noise.

rocket
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Opinions No.2 Oct 31, 2023 0:45:39 GMT 1 David likes this

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Post by rocket on Oct 31, 2023 0:45:39 GMT 1

Oct 30, 2023 23:58:47 GMT 1 dwain said:

Oct 30, 2023 22:45:49 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

I suppose it could boil down to, what is the primary purpose of the MOT Test?

Are we talking about road safety!

Are we talking about the environment!

Are we talking about money for the MOT scheme!

We can all talk a glass eye to sleep with this subject, but one thing I'll guarrantee right now, and that is NOT EVEN ONE person on this thread has ever tested a seatbelts structure for its rigidity, strength and durability whether damaged or not, so not even ONE of us are experienced from research to justify saying whether the belt being damaged is safe or not. And I don't even think anyone at DVSA has that experience either, its just a case of their uniform and warrant card says they are right.

The bottom line is, the manual is poorly worded, and the people that write it are less experienced that testers who examine these defects everyday. An opinion or a viewpoint is simply that, its not conclusive evidence that the defect is unsafe or is safe. Passing and advising is like pass the parcel, I gave the presenter the responsibility to sort it, or get the owner to do so.

Or……you could forget all that and ask yourself one very simple question, with a yes or no answer……is it damaged?

Yes = fail
No = pass

All too easy? add in the one other not particularly taxing option, it is damaged, but only slight = advise.

All the rest is just noise.

Is it damaged yes my opinions alone I passed the Toyota seatbelt

Dynamo
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He who is without oil shall throw the first Rod. See the book of Compression's 8.7.1

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Opinions No.2 Oct 31, 2023 1:10:20 GMT 1 David and nitros44 like this

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Post by Dynamo on Oct 31, 2023 1:10:20 GMT 1

Oct 30, 2023 23:58:47 GMT 1 dwain said:

Oct 30, 2023 22:45:49 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

I suppose it could boil down to, what is the primary purpose of the MOT Test?

Are we talking about road safety!

Are we talking about the environment!

Are we talking about money for the MOT scheme!

We can all talk a glass eye to sleep with this subject, but one thing I'll guarrantee right now, and that is NOT EVEN ONE person on this thread has ever tested a seatbelts structure for its rigidity, strength and durability whether damaged or not, so not even ONE of us are experienced from research to justify saying whether the belt being damaged is safe or not. And I don't even think anyone at DVSA has that experience either, its just a case of their uniform and warrant card says they are right.

The bottom line is, the manual is poorly worded, and the people that write it are less experienced that testers who examine these defects everyday. An opinion or a viewpoint is simply that, its not conclusive evidence that the defect is unsafe or is safe. Passing and advising is like pass the parcel, I gave the presenter the responsibility to sort it, or get the owner to do so.

Or……you could forget all that and ask yourself one very simple question, with a yes or no answer……is it damaged?

Yes = fail
No = pass

All too easy? add in the one other not particularly taxing option, it is damaged, but only slight = advise.

All the rest is just noise.

Not on a forum without sound it isn't

You can't "unbreak" the broken,you can only break the unbroken to break the break of the unbroken, for me, you cannot unbreak me, for I am already broken,so you have no need to break the break because I am not unbroken.

Dynamo
MOT tester

He who is without oil shall throw the first Rod. See the book of Compression's 8.7.1

Posts: 4,306

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Opinions No.2 Oct 31, 2023 22:03:04 GMT 1 David likes this

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Post by Dynamo on Oct 31, 2023 22:03:04 GMT 1

Oct 31, 2023 1:10:20 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

Oct 30, 2023 23:58:47 GMT 1 dwain said:

Or……you could forget all that and ask yourself one very simple question, with a yes or no answer……is it damaged?

Yes = fail
No = pass

All too easy? add in the one other not particularly taxing option, it is damaged, but only slight = advise.

All the rest is just noise.

Not on a forum without sound it isn't

I forgot to add...

Just the thread for it too...

Everthing we hear (no sound) is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, and not the truth.

You can't "unbreak" the broken,you can only break the unbroken to break the break of the unbroken, for me, you cannot unbreak me, for I am already broken,so you have no need to break the break because I am not unbroken.

nitros44 MOT tester Posts: 3,805 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Mar 6, 2013 1:09:15 GMT 1 Likes: 1,970	Opinions No.2 Nov 2, 2023 22:02:31 GMT 1 via mobile David likes this Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by nitros44 on Nov 2, 2023 22:02:31 GMT 1 Oct 26, 2023 9:09:35 GMT 1 David said: Pass or Fail on the image please boys & girls? View Attachment For me this one's a pass/advise ,the defect is confined to the edge and inline with webbing ,
	I might not be the best,but i was always in the top one

nitros44 MOT tester Posts: 3,805 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Mar 6, 2013 1:09:15 GMT 1 Likes: 1,970	Opinions No.2 Nov 2, 2023 22:07:01 GMT 1 David likes this Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by nitros44 on Nov 2, 2023 22:07:01 GMT 1 This one for me is a fail due to the defect being across the belt from one side in wards by a fair few mm
	I might not be the best,but i was always in the top one

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Post by stealth on Oct 30, 2023 19:34:47 GMT 1

Post by rocket on Oct 30, 2023 22:14:37 GMT 1

Post by rocket on Oct 30, 2023 22:28:49 GMT 1

Post by Dynamo on Oct 30, 2023 22:45:49 GMT 1

Post by rocket on Oct 30, 2023 23:41:40 GMT 1

Post by dwain on Oct 30, 2023 23:58:47 GMT 1

Post by rocket on Oct 31, 2023 0:45:39 GMT 1

Post by Dynamo on Oct 31, 2023 1:10:20 GMT 1

Post by Dynamo on Oct 31, 2023 22:03:04 GMT 1

Post by nitros44 on Nov 2, 2023 22:02:31 GMT 1

Post by nitros44 on Nov 2, 2023 22:07:01 GMT 1