Battery security

Dynamo MOT tester He who is without oil shall throw the first Rod. See the book of Compression's 8.7.1 Posts: 4,321 Class tested: 4 Last Online: Apr 29, 2017 15:36:01 GMT 1 Likes: 1,317	Battery security Nov 16, 2015 16:37:18 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Dynamo on Nov 16, 2015 16:37:18 GMT 1 Why then is there no component advisory for a battery insecure?
	You can't "unbreak" the broken,you can only break the unbroken to break the break of the unbroken, for me, you cannot unbreak me, for I am already broken,so you have no need to break the break because I am not unbroken.

David Administrator Owner\Director, AE\NT\SM, DVSA VTS Council Member, Registered Member & Administrator of The MOT Testers & AE's Forum If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein Posts: 6,726 Class tested: 4 Last Online: May 7, 2024 15:21:20 GMT 1 Likes: 965	Battery security Nov 16, 2015 17:28:36 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by David on Nov 16, 2015 17:28:36 GMT 1 Because its now a testable component and it has an RfR - 1.9 Electrical Wiring and Battery - 1. A battery insecure or leaking electrolyte.
	Last Edit: Nov 16, 2015 17:29:20 GMT 1 by David - It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer. —Albert Einstein

phaetonott MOT tester Posts: 1,611 Class tested: 4 Last Online: Nov 6, 2020 17:49:52 GMT 1 Likes: 399	Battery security Nov 16, 2015 18:01:15 GMT 1 ivor likes this Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by phaetonott on Nov 16, 2015 18:01:15 GMT 1 That's why god gave you a finger. Get typing
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baldrick
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Battery security Nov 16, 2015 20:16:31 GMT 1 David, ivor, and 1 more like this

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Post by baldrick on Nov 16, 2015 20:16:31 GMT 1

As I understand it for a battery to fail for being insecure it has to so insecure it is in danger of falling off it's mountings . Such circumstances are more likely to be found on wagons here they are mounted externally (corroded/broken mounting brackets), but it could be argued that the earth strap will hold it (them ) in place . In most vehicles they are never going to move much more than an inch at the most due to being surrounded by other components or panelling . A great example is the classic mini . Remove the retaining bracket and the battery is insecure . However .. Unless you remove the earth lead and turn the car upside down there is little or no chance of the battery ever escaping the confines of the box it sits in in the boot .

ivor
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Post by ivor on Nov 16, 2015 21:21:27 GMT 1

Nov 16, 2015 20:16:31 GMT 1 baldrick said:

As I understand it for a battery to fail for being insecure it has to so insecure it is in danger of falling off it's mountings . Such circumstances are more likely to be found on wagons here they are mounted externally (corroded/broken mounting brackets), but it could be argued that the earth strap will hold it (them ) in place . In most vehicles they are never going to move much more than an inch at the most due to being surrounded by other components or panelling . A great example is the classic mini . Remove the retaining bracket and the battery is insecure . However .. Unless you remove the earth lead and turn the car upside down there is little or no chance of the battery ever escaping the confines of the box it sits in in the boot .

The same goes for modern BMW among many others, you beat me to it baldrick, well done!

motman AE/Manager/Owner Posts: 123 Class tested: 4, 5L, 7 Last Online: Apr 30, 2024 8:14:24 GMT 1 Likes: 21	Battery security Nov 16, 2015 22:09:48 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by motman on Nov 16, 2015 22:09:48 GMT 1 spoke to a ve he agreed with me to pass and advise, two months later spoke to a different ve he said fail.

grumpy
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Post by grumpy on Nov 16, 2015 22:37:01 GMT 1

I've heard this argument from VEs that if it can't fall from the tray then it's pass and advise. I had a car in recently with a battery sliding backwards and forwards in a metal tray and leaking electrolyte from a hole rubbed in the base, I've seen batteries that have moved sideways and are fouling the engine. It seems silly that we can't fail them until they're dripping acid onto the frame of the car, the road and possibly a tester under the car.

phaetonott MOT tester Posts: 1,611 Class tested: 4 Last Online: Nov 6, 2020 17:49:52 GMT 1 Likes: 399	Battery security Nov 17, 2015 2:30:12 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by phaetonott on Nov 17, 2015 2:30:12 GMT 1 A while ago I failed one for hitting the brake reservoir and making it leak at the seals, Can't remember what car but sure it was something French, possibly a 307?, otherwise it's a manual "Battery not fully secure"
	Simon I am never right but at least I am trying

Dynamo
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Post by Dynamo on Nov 17, 2015 10:49:26 GMT 1

Nov 16, 2015 17:28:36 GMT 1 David said:

Because its now a testable component and it has an RfR - 1.9 Electrical Wiring and Battery - 1. A battery insecure or leaking electrolyte.

So David are you saying then that if I am presented with a vehicle and the battery is insecure, i.e. no clamp fitted that the battery is insecure and I should fail it.

You can't "unbreak" the broken,you can only break the unbroken to break the break of the unbroken, for me, you cannot unbreak me, for I am already broken,so you have no need to break the break because I am not unbroken.

David
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Battery security Nov 17, 2015 11:15:42 GMT 1 Darmech likes this

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Post by David on Nov 17, 2015 11:15:42 GMT 1

Nov 17, 2015 10:49:26 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

Nov 16, 2015 17:28:36 GMT 1 David said:

Because its now a testable component and it has an RfR - 1.9 Electrical Wiring and Battery - 1. A battery insecure or leaking electrolyte.

So David are you saying then that if I am presented with a vehicle and the battery is insecure, i.e. no clamp fitted that the battery is insecure and I should fail it.

No Dynamo, I'm saying that if you're presented with a vehicle and the battery is insecure or leaking electrolyte you can fail it.

The choice and decision would be your's ultimately.

That's not what you asked in your OP though Dynamo green. You asked why there is no none component advisory for insecure battery and you have your answer, because it is a testable component.

We don't have any none component advisories currently on Comp 2.

Are you struggling with how insecure warrants a Fail?

Last Edit: Nov 17, 2015 11:17:21 GMT 1 by David -

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servicetune
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Post by servicetune on Nov 17, 2015 14:15:03 GMT 1

From Matters of testing
mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/how-insecure-does-a-battery-have-to-be-before-it-should-be-failed/

Q. How insecure does a battery have to be before it should be failed?

A. The battery must be so insecure such that it is unrestrained and likely to fall from its vertical position when the vehicle is in its presented condition (i.e. bonnet / access panels closed). A battery that is not strapped down and is moving around inside a battery box does not justify a failure, as it cannot fall from the carrier.

I think that answers that officially!

Last Edit: Nov 17, 2015 14:16:49 GMT 1 by servicetune -

Gaz VTS Council member Posts: 2,157 Class tested: 4, 7 Last Online: Sept 7, 2019 10:16:48 GMT 1 Likes: 738	Battery security Nov 17, 2015 14:44:36 GMT 1 via mobile servicetune likes this Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by Gaz on Nov 17, 2015 14:44:36 GMT 1 I remember reading that. It also clarifies headlamp security. Can't argue with that servicetune. Nice one.
	Last Edit: Nov 17, 2015 14:44:48 GMT 1 by Gaz - Specialising in repairing & rebuilding Vauxhall 6 speed gearboxes www.m32guy.co.uk - info@m32guy.co.uk

motman
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Post by motman on Nov 17, 2015 15:06:04 GMT 1

Nov 17, 2015 14:15:03 GMT 1 servicetune said:

From Matters of testing
mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/how-insecure-does-a-battery-have-to-be-before-it-should-be-failed/

Q. How insecure does a battery have to be before it should be failed?

A. The battery must be so insecure such that it is unrestrained and likely to fall from its vertical position when the vehicle is in its presented condition (i.e. bonnet / access panels closed). A battery that is not strapped down and is moving around inside a battery box does not justify a failure, as it cannot fall from the carrier.

I think that answers that officially!

i had a ve telling me that we should not be using matters of testing and use only the mot manual.

servicetune AE/Manager/Owner Posts: 49 Class tested: 4 Last Online: Jun 23, 2016 11:51:58 GMT 1 Likes: 22	Battery security Nov 17, 2015 15:24:00 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by servicetune on Nov 17, 2015 15:24:00 GMT 1 Nov 17, 2015 15:06:04 GMT 1 motman said:
	Last Edit: Nov 17, 2015 17:40:47 GMT 1 by servicetune -

wolfie1 AE/Manager/Owner Posts: 113 Class tested: 4 Last Online: Mar 21, 2022 9:51:01 GMT 1 Likes: 28	Battery security Nov 17, 2015 16:50:13 GMT 1 Back to Top Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by wolfie1 on Nov 17, 2015 16:50:13 GMT 1 i was told that you can only fail a battery for being insecure if it can fall over from the upright position, ie there isint stuff around it to keep it there

servicetune
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Post by servicetune on Nov 17, 2015 17:35:24 GMT 1

Nov 17, 2015 16:50:13 GMT 1 wolfie1 said:

i was told that you can only fail a battery for being insecure if it can fall over from the upright position, ie there isint stuff around it to keep it there

Thai's what matters of testing said. see my post earlier.

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Post by David on Nov 17, 2015 17:50:44 GMT 1

Nov 17, 2015 14:15:03 GMT 1 servicetune said:

From Matters of testing
mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/how-insecure-does-a-battery-have-to-be-before-it-should-be-failed/

Q. How insecure does a battery have to be before it should be failed?

A. The battery must be so insecure such that it is unrestrained and likely to fall from its vertical position when the vehicle is in its presented condition (i.e. bonnet / access panels closed). A battery that is not strapped down and is moving around inside a battery box does not justify a failure, as it cannot fall from the carrier.

I think that answers that officially!

Its a great site isn't it servicetune?

Unfortunately the information provided here is ignored or scorned at still....its the only Official MOT Blog in the UK

It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer.
—Albert Einstein

servicetune
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Post by servicetune on Nov 17, 2015 18:05:53 GMT 1

Nov 17, 2015 15:06:04 GMT 1 motman said:

Nov 17, 2015 14:15:03 GMT 1 servicetune said:

From Matters of testing
mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/how-insecure-does-a-battery-have-to-be-before-it-should-be-failed/

Q. How insecure does a battery have to be before it should be failed?

A. The battery must be so insecure such that it is unrestrained and likely to fall from its vertical position when the vehicle is in its presented condition (i.e. bonnet / access panels closed). A battery that is not strapped down and is moving around inside a battery box does not justify a failure, as it cannot fall from the carrier.

I think that answers that officially!

i had a ve telling me that we should not be using matters of testing and use only the mot manual.

Look on the Matters of testing page at the right hand side under the DVSA LOGO you will see these words "Official advice and information about the MOT test" Can't get more official than that surely!

Dynamo
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Post by Dynamo on Nov 17, 2015 18:07:01 GMT 1

Nov 17, 2015 11:15:42 GMT 1 David said:

Nov 17, 2015 10:49:26 GMT 1 Dynamo said:

So David are you saying then that if I am presented with a vehicle and the battery is insecure, i.e. no clamp fitted that the battery is insecure and I should fail it.

No Dynamo, I'm saying that if you're presented with a vehicle and the battery is insecure or leaking electrolyte you can fail it.

The choice and decision would be your's ultimately.

That's not what you asked in your OP though Dynamo green. You asked why there is no none component advisory for insecure battery and you have your answer, because it is a testable component.

We don't have any none component advisories currently on Comp 2.

Are you struggling with how insecure warrants a Fail?

No David I'm not struggling with anything, what I was referring to is that initially the new reg's brought battery security into the test and then we were told not to fail them, then I asked about why there is no component advisory updated on MOT Modernisation, COMP II as you call it, but I have been told different to you from senior DVSA staff at Bristol.

I would have thought DVSA should have included a component advisory for battery security, worded how they want to word it.

You can't "unbreak" the broken,you can only break the unbroken to break the break of the unbroken, for me, you cannot unbreak me, for I am already broken,so you have no need to break the break because I am not unbroken.

nitros44
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Post by nitros44 on Nov 17, 2015 21:55:13 GMT 1

Nov 17, 2015 17:50:44 GMT 1 David said:

Nov 17, 2015 14:15:03 GMT 1 servicetune said:

From Matters of testing
mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/how-insecure-does-a-battery-have-to-be-before-it-should-be-failed/

Q. How insecure does a battery have to be before it should be failed?

A. The battery must be so insecure such that it is unrestrained and likely to fall from its vertical position when the vehicle is in its presented condition (i.e. bonnet / access panels closed). A battery that is not strapped down and is moving around inside a battery box does not justify a failure, as it cannot fall from the carrier.

I think that answers that officially!

Its a great site isn't it servicetune?

Unfortunately the information provided here is ignored or scorned at still....its the only Official MOT Blog in the UK

Ya correct!, the information provided may be ignored and maybe scorned ...................when its wrong.........or incomplete,at the end of the day it's only guidance.
Like the Nissan primera write up ,the guidance doesn't cover all eventualities or other factors that need to be taken into account before a tester comes to the choice to pass or fail.
Matters of testing says don't fail battery's that that are floppy about ok then forget the manual just do what matters of testing sez!.......pass..........we will all end up in trouble.
A battery may well be jumping about an engine bay and not able to fall off its carrier,but take other things into the equation might mean it could fail.
Guidance giving in matters of testing looks to me like its heavily edited .

I might not be the best,but i was always in the top one

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Post by Dynamo on Nov 16, 2015 16:37:18 GMT 1

Post by David on Nov 16, 2015 17:28:36 GMT 1

Post by phaetonott on Nov 16, 2015 18:01:15 GMT 1

Post by baldrick on Nov 16, 2015 20:16:31 GMT 1

Post by ivor on Nov 16, 2015 21:21:27 GMT 1

Post by motman on Nov 16, 2015 22:09:48 GMT 1

Post by grumpy on Nov 16, 2015 22:37:01 GMT 1

Post by phaetonott on Nov 17, 2015 2:30:12 GMT 1

Post by Dynamo on Nov 17, 2015 10:49:26 GMT 1

Post by David on Nov 17, 2015 11:15:42 GMT 1

Post by servicetune on Nov 17, 2015 14:15:03 GMT 1

Post by Gaz on Nov 17, 2015 14:44:36 GMT 1

Post by motman on Nov 17, 2015 15:06:04 GMT 1

Post by servicetune on Nov 17, 2015 15:24:00 GMT 1

Post by wolfie1 on Nov 17, 2015 16:50:13 GMT 1

Post by servicetune on Nov 17, 2015 17:35:24 GMT 1

Post by David on Nov 17, 2015 17:50:44 GMT 1

Post by servicetune on Nov 17, 2015 18:05:53 GMT 1

Post by Dynamo on Nov 17, 2015 18:07:01 GMT 1

Post by nitros44 on Nov 17, 2015 21:55:13 GMT 1